Utha Uthaiyan Kumanan, also known as BlackBeard, is one of the coolest, most handworking, efficient and most importantly EFFECTIVE sound engineers I know. Some of my colleagues know this, especially when I'm playing in a jazz setting I almost never let the engineer use more than two overheads to mic the drums because I'm paranoid about putting my own dynamic mix of the drumset elements into the hands of the engineer. I have even gone so far before as to disconnect a bass drum mic and place it in the corner of the room during a soundcheck.
Utha is one of the few that I trust that he's always going to have my back and that he's always working to amplify what I hear acoustically when I'm playing and he's going to be making all the right decisions to make me sound the best I can in any given situation. It rarely happens, but when he's on the gig i don't ever have to worry about what I sound like through the PA system, and I know all I have to do is focus on doing my part.
As a front of house sound engineer who has ridiculously good ears and a great sense of music, Utha is a prime candidate to speak to for any drummer who wants to know what to do to sound good and how best to work with your sound engineer to get the best result. So of course, I decided to pick his brain, so we all could learn something from this super talented and hardworking guy.
Interview Start
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Wen : First off, from a sound engineer's perspective, what is it like working with a drummer? And what do you think all drummers who work with you should understand?
Utha : feel like I resonate with drummers most, having played drums myself, unlike most other instruments which I had to learn how to work(just to get a better idea on how to "mix" it), working with drummers and drums came very naturally and its a joy for the most part.
I must say I've been very privileged in regards to most of the drummers I've worked with, they've never been an ass or made my life difficult, I've always been given the liberty to make decisions. If anything I would like to share, good sound always begins at the source, and if either party (drummer, drums & engineer) is not on the right track all it takes is a conversation and a relationship with the people you work with. We're all on the same boat when it comes to wanting a good show
I'm assuming no PG required cos its you? Haha.
Wen : Haha no PG required no. So speaking about good sound always begins at the source, there's an obsession amongst drummers about gear, and speed, but ironically very few drummers are concerned about what they SOUND like. Most of the people reading this blog would be interested in your work with Charlie, so in the context of Charlie's Music, what do you need from the drums to be able to do your work well?
Utha : My concept of mixing changed when I met you and the mothership(Charlie Lim's Band for those who may not know) in 2014. I was one of those who chose to hide behind gear as well but one particular interaction changed this for me.
I don't wanna sound like I'm patronising you but I remember talking to you about the snare having a slight ring at our first show, and you telling me with the straightest face (a no-nonsense attitude and confidence to your work that I've loved about you since we met) ,that's what a snare sounded like in real life, made me stop and rethink how I had approached mixing altogether. I was chasing this perfect sampled snare, you were giving me an organic snare full of tone and character which is what the music needed. It's important that we had these conversations so that we can be on the same page, more importantly, it's important to gain the trust of the people you work with. Its key to note that this was my first show with the band and I had to show that I'm willing to listen before I chime in so I went with what I was given.
Over the many shows we had a relationship that just functioned, you cared about the way you sounded more than what you played on and I just wanted things to sound good, we'd always have a good conversation about what it will take to make things better(how loud you played, if the tom sounded right, if the snare sounded good) none of this revolved around the gear we had but more about the way we used it. The famous wen's snare wallet was the answer to the snare sound most of the time and even if I tried so hard to not use it, it always was the solution.
In regards to what I needed from the drums to do my work well for charlie's music, to put it plainly we need a drummer who did his/her job. Charlie's music takes such a huge spectrum tonally and dynamically, I could chase my tail all night trying to re-create this or let it come through as the drummer is already doing it. If it's a soft passage with brushes it should sound like that, maybe you might need to give it a slight bump in volume and/or bypass the gates. If its loud and thunderous let it be cos the drummers doing what he's supposed to, use some light compression to keep things in line. If while being dynamic the drummer is causing some inconvenience to the mix, have a talk with him/her and reach a solution such as playing a bit softer for loud parts or playing a bit louder in soft parts. beyond the drums sounding good at the source, it's all about using the right microphones and mic positioning.
Wen : Let’s flip this around. What are some things that drummers do that make it a nightmare for you to mix?
Utha :
1) Drummers who aren’t willing to have a conversation about how we can help each other to get a better sound
2)Drum kits that aren’t tuned at all
3) Drummers who pound away with no consideration of venue
Wen : Let’s take this apart one by one - venue. You’re basically talking about playing the room I assume. So let’s talk about the extremes what do you need a drummer to do in a club that houses 50-60 people, versus the star, versus an outdoor venue?
Utha : Choosing smaller cymbals or just having a lighter hand on them can really help when in smaller venues like clubs. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, the best guide is your ears. Come and watch the other bands soundcheck you’ll immediately know what works and what doesn't. I’d like to think your dynamic range should be correlated to venue size. Say in a small venue playing in pianissimo is audible and playing in forte is loud when going to a bigger venue, only at mezzopiano allows u to be heard and only at fortissimo are you loud. This is because less of the acoustic sound is factor to the mix as it is in a small venue as suppose to a bigger venue. This keeps going to the point where in a large outdoor venue or stadium, stage sound dorsn't exist but to the first row of the audience everything that needs to be heard should be coming out of the speakers as suppose to the small club everything comes of stage and the speakers fill in whatever is missing.
This used to be the mantra for many years but as of recent years the expectations of the audience for sound has shifted. Everything needs to be clear and intelligible and if it’s already blaring out of stage volume thrs little an engineer can do, cos if he or she try’s to fight this the mix coming out of the speakers will only become louder to the point where it is damaging to an audience’s hearing. Having control and having a chat with you engineer will definitely help yield better results. Once again communication is the key.
Wen : It seems we keep speaking about trust between the two parties - on my end I know it takes some amount of convincing to let the sound engineer know that a certain amount of ring coming from the drums may sound present during line check, but ring gets eaten up by the other instruments and becomes presence once other instruments come in
On another hand to be honest when we’re working together on the big stages, apart from doing my part to get the best sound tone and energy possible, I’m putting my complete faith in you to make things right because I truly have no idea what it sounds like in front. People need to realise that that’s huge
Ok less sound engineery now and more from being the one person in the band that always gets to hear the band they way the audience does, just from an aural perspective, what do you think a band needs from the guy on the drumseat?
Utha : The drummer to me needs to be multiple things for the band, he's the heartbeat, an anchor, the mood setter and the guide amongst many other things. Most importantly the band needs him/her to play the music.
Playing ”musically” comes to my mind. Earlier you spoke about drummers being more concerned about speed and gear this is an obsession that comes with watching their fav drummers in the wrong context. Watching your idols play is a very good way to develop music vocabulary but if you only watch them in solo features and product placements this is as good as selective quoting, you'll always be out of context. We should learn to watch them playing shows in full length, if a show is two hours long see how much of it is them holding the beat down and how much of it is being flashy and fast.
Wen : You know being a Musician yourself and a sound engineer you have a great vantage point for knowing what works and the point of listening in entirety is so huge. I mean it’s tough to even sit and listen to a whole album these days the way technology is, so context always can get lost.
You alluded a little to the internal mixing of the drummer like not hitting the cymbals so hard etc. How hard is it honestly for you to deal with someone who doesn’t deal with his own internal mix of all the parts of the drumset? What happens behind the sound console when you have to deal with a drummer that doesn’t mix himself first, from the acoustic volumes he’s putting out?
Utha :This has more to do with final result and im gonna try to explain it as best as I can. Let’s take a small venue and the snare for example. If the snare is acoustically loud enough it doesn’t mean it sounds “good” cause what you’re hearing is just reflections and because it’s loud enough there just isn’t any reason to put it in the PA any more. In the context of the mix even though you can hear the snare because it’s not direct sounding as a result of it not coming out the PA, the snare could sound honky or feeble. It’s also worth noting that this snare is also gonna unavoidably bleed into that lead singers vocal mic and that guitar cab mic and become even more feeble cos it’s just reflections being captured. Now having said that it’s also important to look at the music. All these requirements for direct sound is only a thing for modern music where the snare is at the epicenter of driving the music. If we looked at older styles of music like jazz I’ve gotten away with just using over head mics cos tts all tts needed for the job we don’t need the drums to be tower of power they drive the band in a very different way from the typical four on the floor. This could also be cos the drummers who play these older styles of music have very good experience of internally mixing themselves. The result is when this practice of “internal mixing” doesn't happen the smaller the venue the less we can help each other.
Wen : What to you is the definition of a snare sounding “good” in modern music?
Utha : As a main snare the characteristics that seem to work in the mix for me are
1) open(not too choked)
2) full bodied/thick (achieved by a good tuning interval between batter and resonant head) ;Kenny Scheret’s YouTube channel talks quite in depth about this.
3) Right amount of crisp and crack though usually this is in the hands of the drummer playing it(pun intended)
Wen : Ok. So there’s two schools of thought with sound engineers when playing large venues
1)they want the drummer to create all the energy and volume and tone from the drums, so the drummer is given free reign and encourages to bash the shit out of the drums as Long as the tone of the drums is still good and everything is sonically pleasing
2)the sound engineer actually prefers the drummer to not so much play the room but play as if he were in a normal club setting, and the engineer then uses the mics to do the work
Obviously you know in the context we work together with with Charles, I do the first, but I’ve also been asked to do the second way and it’s also had great results so to be flexibility is really important depending on who’s behind the Soundboard and what their personal vision / workflow is.
But honestly what’s YOUR personal take on this?
Utha : Option 1 almost always! My personal take is always for the musician to create the vibe. The mics I put out should only be an extension of what they’re doing. Though I am privileged to be afforded an opinion creatively I’m always mindful that I’m there to make things louder that much has never changed about the jobs primary description.
Wen : Ok so here’s your shot, don’t name names but tell me some horror stories of drummers you’ve worked with so that people reading know What NOT to do
Utha : Finding the Floor Tom channel for the whole of soundcheck only to have the drummer think your not happy with the Floor Tom sound so he patiently keeps retuning it hahahah (this is a private joke between us, I won't explain, but i'll just let you read it anyways)
Wen : Hahahaha OK no no I mean when the drummer was just a prick/impossible to mke sound good
Utha : I’ve thankfully never had an asshole so bad to work with that they need to be mentioned, even the most “difficult” to work with know what they’re doing, then again what might piss people of to mars and back generally doesnt irk me as much. Maybe some life lessons learned?
1) For musos go talk to the people you’re about to work with. You don’t need to be best friends, no need to be a sweet candy but if you’re honest and give good feedback and some solutions any engineer who’s worth anything will want to help make the situation better. Being a prick an adamant about something never helped anyone.
2) For engineers listen cos that’s what we’re paid to do. Don’t let ego and tempers get in the way. You got the job because someone already thought you were the best guy available to do the job. We don’t have to prove anything other then show we can do the job. When someone gives feedback no matter how the delivery is just learn to absorb. More so often than not that drunk guy telling you he can’t hear something in the mix is bloody spot on.
Wen :Thank you that's as good a place to finish as any I would think!